Corona Unmasked: New Facts and Figures a Special Interview with Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi by Dr. Joseph Mercola | 2021 AUG 22
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi and Dr. Joseph Mercola Video and Transcript
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Welcome everyone. Dr. Mercola,
helping you take control of your health and continuing to keep you updated and informed on the COVID-19 pandemic. And in effort to do that we
have Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, who is a microbiologist in Germany. And we're connecting with them in Germany
at this time. So, welcome
and thank you for joining us today.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Thank you for having me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: So, can
you provide us with a little bit of your background with respect to
professional training? You're a microbiologist and maybe run over some of the academic credentials and
affiliations you've had and what you're doing now?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, I
graduated from medical school in Germany. That was back in 1970. And then
after a year of clinical
work, I joined the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology [and Epigenetics] to
learn how to do science. And
I stayed there for four years as a post-doc where I began my research in
immunology. I researched the
complement system and was involved in identifying the magic bullet of the
complement system, which
causes wrongly transfused erythrocytes to [inaudible 00:01:22]. My first piece of work was done on that. And then it went into microbiology, bacteriology and
discovered that bacteria, most of them, produced similar weapons to use against us. And that's what set
off my career as a microbiologist. So, I ended up chairing the department of medical,
microbiology and hygiene at the University of Mainz where I stayed for 22 years until my retirement nine years ago.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
Well, thank you for that. So, you have a very prestigious pedigree, the
academic history. You're an MD/Ph.D. and for those who aren't familiar with it, why don't you say a few
words about the Max Planck Institute? Because
it's one of the most
prestigious institutes
for science in the world. I believe.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, it used to be.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. So, maybe tell us where it used to be when you were working and what's happened since then?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well,
the Max Planck Institute where I was, was famous because the discoverers of
the so-called endotoxin, which is what leads to septic shock and death during severe infections was partly discovered there.
And that's where the center of immunology was based at that time. Those were
in the ‘70s. And that's why
I went there. In fact, it was also the first institution in Germany where
membranes of cells were
analyzed to see what was going on within the membrane itself. And that's how I
stumbled across the magic
bullet of the complement system because I discovered that a complement, when
it is activated, shoots
bullets into the membranes of your cells. And that's what kills you. Now, all
of this is coming back to,
is completing a whole circle in my life, because it now turns out that the
coronavirus is also
employing this method of using our own immune system to the path of
self-destruction. And that is what I think is one of the major paths to adverse events after vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yes,
indeed. So, you're eminently scientifically qualified to comment in this area
because you've spent the
majority of your professional life studying these issues. So, we're eagerly
looking forward to the conclusions you've reached. I think most of your comments have been directed
to the vaccine. I think that's probably a good place to start, because that seems to be the objective
of this whole “plandemic” narrative is to manipulate, brainwash,
cajole people into getting the vaccine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I
agree entirely.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. I
mean, this is where we're at and we need to understand this. And I think
you're providing us with an
overall perspective will help many people. Now having said that, I am
convinced without any shadow of a doubt we are in the middle of one of the most effective propaganda
campaigns ever engineered in the history of the human race.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And as a
result of that propaganda and brainwashing, literally half the population is
essentially unable to think
rationally or logically when they're presented with facts. So, we have to
understand that many people
who need to hear this presented on a silver platter, will just ignore it and
choose to believe it's fake
or it's just not correct. So, that's okay. Because there's half of the people
who aren't brainwashed and
that's who we're speaking to. So, why don't you give us your perspective as to
what's been happening? I've got a lot of specific questions, but I'll let you start it off by painting the broad strokes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, I
agree with all of what you said, and I have actually nothing to add to that.
Our whole efforts, our entire efforts, my efforts of my wife, Karina Reiss and myself are currently
directed at providing information about the so-called vaccination, because we believe that this
vaccination agenda and program is the greatest threat to humanity. The greatest threat that humanity
has ever come up against. And it is our duty to aggressively inform people about the dangers that they
are subjecting themselves and their beloved ones to by this vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
That's a good place to start. And as again, I want to emphasize that you are
more than eminently qualified academically to comment on this because of your decades of
experience in this area. So, why don't you-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I
also worked on development of vaccines.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Oh yeah.
That's another point I wanted to bring up. You are not anti-vax. I am
typically perceived as anti- vax, because I have been opposed to routine vaccinations for probably over
three decades now. And I did
provide vaccination immunizations in my medical practice up until about the
early ‘90s, before I began
to understand or realize that there was enormous complications with them. But
that is not the position
you've taken. You actually are pro-vax and I suspect you've received most of
your vaccinations up to
date, but with this one you've turned around. So, maybe you can expand on that
before you go into
discussion, because I think many people will choose to paint you untruthfully as an anti-vaxxer.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I would
modify that a little bit. I certainly am pro-vax with regards to the
vaccinations that work and that are meaningful. And with that, I will also say tetanus, diphtheria, yes,
anytime. However, I have not been pro [to] the recommendations that have been given. So, I would never say that
infants, little children, should be vaccinated against diphtheria and tetanus because they are not endangered. If you say-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Or hepatitis B, even more insane at day one of birth.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes.
Well, exactly. I'm not for that. I would be for tetanus and diphtheria at the
right age, before they enter
school, for instance, where the danger of getting aluminum poisoning has
subsided. And I would never
go for vaccination of infants with diphtheria, tetanus and pneumococcal, as
they're doing in Germany,
creating massive, thousands of poor children who suffer from aluminum
intoxication. So, whereas I
say I am pro-vax, I will say so only for the vaccinations that are really
meaningful. And this does
not pertain for instance, to influenza, to the flu. It does not pertain
necessarily to shingles and it certainly does not
pertain to corona.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay,
great. So, thank you for refining that characterization of your position
because I think it's important to do that. And that is a rational perspective, and it's really
hard to argue against it if you're objective, from my perspective. So, thank you for refining that. So, why
don't we dive into the primary reasons for your objections to the coronavirus vaccine, which extensively,
and maybe I can dive into a little bit of the historical perspective, was characterized as being 95%
effective or in that range, because there was a number of different vaccine manufacturers out there, but in a sense, 95% effective.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And that
was essentially a massive statistical aberration because they conflated
relative risk and absolute
risk. So, the absolute risk was probably closer to 1% or 2%. Or even under 1%,
I think it was under 1%.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Under 1%.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Under
1%. So, why don't we start there and then it wasn't for providing immunity or
protecting you from infection. It was just at lowering the symptoms, the
severity of the symptoms that you had.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Which they did not show either.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, but that's what they claimed.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: They
didn't show anything. They showed absolutely zero. This is, the
ridiculousness, it's so devastating that one doesn't understand that people don't understand that they're being
fooled and have been fooled
all along. Let's take the one of these Pfizer trials, 20,000 people were
vaccinated and 20,000 healthy people were not vaccinated. And then they observed over a period of I
think, 12 weeks or so, how
many cases did they find in the vaccinated group and how many cases did they
find the non- vaccinated?
And as you say, what they found was that less than 1% of the vaccinated group
got COVID- 19 and less than
1% in the non-vaccinated group also got COVID-19. The difference was 0.8% to
0.1%, which is nothing
considering the fact that they were not even looking at severe cases. They
were looking at people with a positive PCR
test, which as we all now know is worthless.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I mean,
it's not worth the scrap of paper that you look at. Plus one symptom, which
could be cough or a bit of
fever. And that is not a severe case of COVID-19. So, any vaccination that is
going to get authorized must be shown to protect against severe illness and death. And this has
definitely not been shown. So, forget authorization. It can't be authorized, not by any normal means. Now
you will come and say, okay, it isn't a full authorization. It's an emergency authorization, which again
is absolute bullshit. Since we know, since John Ioannidis has published these numbers that have never been
contested by anyone in the
world and cannot be contested, that the infection fatality rate of this
disease or virus is not greater than that of seasonal flu. And if anyone is under 70 years of age and has no
preexisting illness, no severe pre-existing illness,
he can hardly die, even if he wants to, of COVID-19
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: . There
is no fatality rate that can be reduced. There is none. And for people who are
elderly and have preexisting
illness, as we know from Peter McCullough and his colleagues' work, there are
very good means and
medicines to treat this virus so that the fatality rates go down another 70%
to 80%, if they are treated
properly, which means that there is no ground for emergency use whatsoever,
which means that the FDA
(Food and Drug Authority) should be able to be forced to retract this
emergency use authorization unless
they are in league with whoever wants to do this.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well,
they clearly are. And what'd you said is completely accurate. And just to
expand on that a bit to clarify is that one of the qualifications for legally implementing emergency
use authorization measures is that there cannot be a preexisting treatment that exists that is an alternative. And they exist on multiple fronts. I mean, there's at least half a dozen strategies that one
can use to effectively lower [crosstalk 00:15:04].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I'm completely with you. That's what I'm trying to say. So, the whole thing is ridiculous.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All
right. So, clearly we're both in agreement too, on the propaganda being used
and the effect or the primary objective of the propaganda is to radically increase the fear,
because fear is one of the primary, most potent motivations to behavior manipulation. And one of the ways they've
done this is to, especially
early in January, when they started collecting the data is to suggest that
people who are getting
infected. And there's such a difference because they call it a case versus
COVID-19, which is a radical differentiation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: When the
fatality rate was dropping, then they switched. Instead of using deaths, they
switched to cases. And most
people believe that the cases were equivalent to deaths. And they're not,
obviously. But what they did
is they did some initial studies and collected data in January. And the data
showed that most of the
people who were getting infected were not vaccinated. Big surprise, because
they just started the
campaign in late December, but they've maintained that data. And they used
statistics from that to all
the way six months later, and their claim was, which was massively propagated
on the media is that 99% of
the people getting infected are unvaccinated, which is exact conflict. It's
almost the converse. We're
looking at 70% to 85% of most of the studies showing people getting infected
now are vaccinated. So, why
don't you dive into that? Because it's an area they massively twisted around
to propagandize with misinformation.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I have
nothing to add to what you say. Of course, all of this is manipulative. It's
all manipulated. And as you
say, if anyone wants to manipulate something and are in a position to then
propagate it, you have no
chance of analyzing it and telling people because we have no voice in this
affair and we don't – when we stand up and tell people this, they just turn around and say that's not the truth.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
Well, that is the truth. And even they're admitting it and they're ignoring
their previous claims. And
then we can look at the experience of some countries that are even more
successful at propagandizing
their populations to convince them to get the vaccine. And I'm thinking of
Israel specifically.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: [crosstalk 00:17:49] not bad. Germany is not bad.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
Israel was like 85%, 90% of the population is immunized. So, we've got, I want
to talk at this point too. Because there are three countries, Israel,
Sweden and India, which absolutely destroy their narrative, because
first we got Israel, which has been massively vaccinated and getting enormous amounts of cases.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: They were forced. [inaudible 00:18:16] you really believe it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
Well, I don't, you're probably correct. I haven't studied the history over
there. And then I'm sad if they were forced because that is, which is somewhat what they're moving into
and the position they're moving into in this country for forcing it. But there's no-fly rule in such.
And you cannot go to work. I mean, there are some CNN commentators who believe that you shouldn't be able
to go to the grocery store
unless you're
vaccinated.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah. Throw them into jail.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
Throw them in the jail. Yeah. But anyway, so we've got the experience with
Israel and they are getting,
I believe most of the people, the cases there are people who have been
vaccinated. Then you have
Sweden and India. Well, Sweden, from the perspective that they had no
lockdowns, no masks, no social isolations. And they have one of the lowest rates ever. And you don't
hear any talk about Sweden anymore because it disproves what their claims where. If it was the contrary
to that, you'd hear about it every day. In India has hardly anyone immunized. I don't know if it's just
discourteous and it's very low it's well under 25%, maybe as low as 10%. And we're not seeing a
lot of cases in India at all.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well,
I talked to Indian colleagues a couple of weeks ago.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. So, why don't you update us on your perspective on that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: And they said that in, of course, less than 10% of India's vaccinated,
but they're an awful lot of Indians.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, over a billion.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, if
a hundred million have been vaccinated, that's a damn lot. And they are in
fact seeing very severe cases of true corona infections. And they are among the vaccinated. What
we're witnessing in India and probably also in Israel is the immune-dependent enhancement of disease, which
we have always warned
against together with Dolores Cahill a long time ago. And I think also in our
book. It's bound to happen.
So, the people who are getting vaccinated now have to be fearful of the next
wave of genuine infections,
whether it's corona, COVID-19 relatives or not, or any other coronaviruses,
because they're all related and they will all be subject to immune-dependent enhancement, obviously.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. So, I definitely want you to dive deeper into that because you're really well trained and qualified to comment on it. And I like the fact that you're calling it immune
enhancement because I think that's more accurate. Typically for those who are watching and may appreciate that,
typically this is referred to as ADE or antibody-dependent enhancement, which I don't think is as good as –
I like to term PIE or paradoxical because it doesn't make sense. It does the exact opposite of what
it's supposed to do, immune
enhancement. So, why don't you discuss what's happening? Because I think this
is the crux and really forms
the foundational basis for your concern. Some of the projections I've heard
you stated earlier as to the outcome of what's going to happen to most of the people who've been vaccinated.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I mean,
I will start by saying something that we've also written in our book, that
there are two major arms of
defense against infection. One, against viral infection, one are the
antibodies that, if they are present, may prevent the virus from entering the cells. These are so-called neutralizing antibodies, which the
vaccination is supposed to – yes. But since the antibodies directed against
respiratory viruses are not
really there at the place that they are needed, which is on the surface of the
airway epithelium. They are
in the blood, but not at the surface of the epithelium where the virus
arrives. Most respiratory viruses will be able to enter the lung cells. And the second arm of immune
defense then comes into play. And these are the lymphocytes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Now
there are different types of lymphocytes and I will simplify matters by saying
the important lymphocytes
are the so-called killer lymphocytes that sense whenever a virus product is
being produced in the cell
and they will then come and destroy the cells that harbor the virus and thus
is the factory closed. And
people get well again. That is the mechanism how we can survive viral
infections of the lung. And
this happens all the time. So, the lymphocytes in contrast to the antibodies
recognize many, many, many
parts of the proteins. All right. So, if a virus changes a little bit, it
doesn't matter, because the waste products that are recognized by the killer lymphocytes remain very
similar. And that is why all of us, and this is now known, all of us have memory lymphocytes in our lymph
nodes and in our lymphoid organs that are trained to recognize these coronaviruses. And whether or not
a mutant is there, it doesn't really matter, because they will recognize a mutant.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Or variants, is what they're calling [crosstalk 00:24:14].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Or variants, the same, variants. But the variants you see, aren't really altered so much.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Right, it's pretty minor.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: It's
extremely little because coronaviruses can only undergo point mutations.
Meaning only one nucleotide
at a time can be changed. This is the difference to flu. The flu virus can
completely change its spike protein by exchanging the spike protein. One virus can exchange it's spike protein with another virus if two viruses are in the cell. This sort of shift is not
possible with coronaviruses. And therefore you will never have leaps in antigenic changes either for antibodies or for
T-cell killer lymphocytes. And that's why the background immunity, I don't want to talk about herd immunity,
but the background immunity
that evolves during the lifetime of a human being is very broad and very
solid. And that's why when
the virus enters the body of a 17-year-old, who has not any preexisting
illness, the virus is not going to kill that man or woman.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: It
cannot. We are immune. And in fact, this is the good news. There have been
papers appearing in June that have collectively shown that, indeed, our immune system already knows
this new virus and is already trained in combat with this virus. And this is absolutely clear and
conclusive that evidence is there and anyone can go and read those papers that have shown that the
response to vaccination. If you're vaccinated today, the immune system immediately responds by throwing
out the antibodies that everyone wants. They are already in the treasure trove of the immune system.
Plus the killer lymphocytes
that you need in case the virus gets to the lung. And that is that. In fact,
because these papers have
been published, we now know that the narrative that this virus is new and
therefore dangerous because the immune system cannot
recognize it is a lie. It's wrong.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah,
it is.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Proven to be wrong. So, now we have no reason whatsoever to vaccinate. First of all – yeah.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well,
let's dive into the herd immunity because that's the crux of the issue. And I
really want to focus on what
are the most egregious nullifications or decimation of medical scientific
truths. And that is the concept that unless you have immunity from the vaccine, you're not protected.
It doesn't matter if you've
received natural immunity, which is far different, far superior, infinitely
more superior. Let's go into
it. So, I want you, you're so qualified to go into this, this is why I wanted
to discuss it. You had mentioned these antibodies that are in the blood and not on the epithelial
surfaces. Well, the antibodies are three types IgG, which is the long-term, IgM, the acute. And then you got
secretory IgA. So, I'm thinking that in the natural infection you have the secretory IgA but the
vaccine does not produce that, but maybe it does. So, then of course, you've got the lymphocyte too. So, why
don't you expand on that a
bit, just to clarify and help us understand why natural immunity is infinitely
superior to a vaccine- induced immunity?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well,
the antibodies don't really, they're not enough of them. The struggle between
antibodies and virus is a
struggle of numbers. So, one antibody can bind one spike point and once it's
bound, it's gone. So, even
if you have secretory IgA out there lining the epithelium, which you do, but
you have minuscule amounts
of it. That's known, it's minuscule. The moment the viral load is high, they
just overrun. It's that simple. So, the antibody – so the virus will always get into the lung just as the flu does, but then the killer
lymphocytes will come and extinguish the fire. Now, in that process, of
course, viruses may enter the blood. When lung tissue is destroyed, virus may enter the blood, and then
maybe the antibodies will play a protective role by preventing the virus from
disseminating via the bloodstream to other organs.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: In
fact, it is known that the coronavirus does not disseminate to other organs.
It is known that the spike protein, it can dissociate away and by itself, on its own, travel to distant
sites in the body. And that can also be partly suppressed by antibodies, probably. But this is not a big
deal. The big deal are the lymphocytes, which are the naturally occurring cells that protect you. And of
course, vaccination that is aimed primarily at creating IgG antibodies in the blood have no way of
competing with natural immunity via lymphocytes, no way at all. And the very fact that the WHO (World Health
Organization) has changed the definition of herd immunity to say that [crosstalk 00:30:27] created by antibodies by vaccination is such a scandal. I'm at a loss of words to describe how ridiculous I find
this all, that this is being accepted by our colleagues. I mean, your colleagues and my colleagues. How can the
physicians and scientists of the world bear to have to listen to all this nonsense?
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Just to
be clear, the killer lymphocytes seem to be the champions here at providing
the bulk of the immune
response that's going to protect us against devastating side effects from the
infection. And it's your contention that the COVID
injections do not stimulate killer lymphocyte production.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I did not say that.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. Well then that's why I asked for clarification. [crosstalk 00:31:25].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I
didn't say that. On the contrary, they will. However, this is going to be at
the expense of the patients, because this is going to create horrible, adverse side effects. Now, let me
just try to tell you what I think. You see, normally this virus will stay in the lung because it's sort of
captured there by the killer lymphocytes. So we have a lung infection and the lung can recuperate, can
recover from this after the virus has gone. What a man is now daring to do is that he is daring to
introduce a viral gene, the gene of dangerous gene into the blood, so that it gains access to sites that it would
never gain access to in normal conditions. And these are two main sites. First, the lymph nodes, the
lymph nodes that drain the muscles. And second, once the genes have entered the bloodstream, they will
enter the cells that line the vessels, which are the endothelial cells. These are the cells that line
all the vessels of our body down to the capillaries from the big to the smallest.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Can you
just, I can just hold you there and just ask a quick question. The vaccine or
the COVID injection jab is
injected into the deltoid muscle into the arm. So, can you just walk us
through how it gets from there into the blood?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah,
very simple, the path that is well-known is that it drains to the lymph nodes
and things that are in the
lymph nodes then go into the bloodstream. In the case of these nanoparticles,
however, there may be
another way in, and that is the direct translocation from the muscle into the
small vessels because these lipid packages [crosstalk 00:33:45] are not only so small, they have special properties of being taken up by cells actively and cast out on the other side of the cell. This
is so-called transcytosis, going across a cell. And this is something that is very poorly defined, but it
seems to be taking place. We know this from animal data that Pfizer had to submit to the Japanese authorities.
They have never been published in English by the way. And there they show that these packages, the
nanoparticles, appeared in
the blood within just one or two hours after injection, which is so fast that
it means that they must have been translated directly from the muscle into the blood, which is a horrible thought, by the way.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Okay.
So, when the spikes are made at forbidden sites, and these sites are the
vessels of your body, the vessels of your brain, for instance, one has to imagine that if once they're
sitting in a room, that would be a vessel, then the tapestry would be the cells lining the vessel. You
would have to imagine suddenly spikes coming out of the wall, into the bloodstream. That's what's happening
to all these poor people. All over the body. No one knows where because no one ever bothered to look.
And when this happens, immediately, the killer lymphocytes that we all have, and that have been
trained in combat to recognize corona spike proteins will come and attack the cells because they think that
these cells are infected. It's that straightforward. And we wrote, actually, in our second book that has
only appeared in German, but we wrote this chapter in English
too.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, it
can be downloaded free of charge for anyone who wants to read it. And what we
wrote was that we cannot
imagine that scraping the tapestry of the wall will not have serious
consequences. The major one
being that it will provoke clot formation because the moment a vessel is
injured, clots will form. And that's why that was back in February, we said we were horribly worried that
people receiving these vaccines were going to suffer from clot formation at sites we did not really
know, but in the meantime, it turns out that that clot formation is probably one of the major paths to
adverse events and reactions to illness, to death in all vaccine recipients.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
So, let's expand on that a bit, because that's a broad range of types of
clots. I mean, you've got the typical type of blood clot we think of clinically is one that is big enough
to occlude really crucial arteries like in the brain or in the heart, the arteries of the heart. So, you have a
heart attack. So, is it that type of clot or is it much smaller ones? These micro emboli that really-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, both, anything you want, anything you want, both. And in fact, pathologists are now starting to see that. And it's an incredible array of clot formation from tiny clots,
micro-thrombosis, to large clots in deep veins that lead to pulmonary embolism. Anything you want. Cerebral sinus
venous thrombosis that causes these splitting headaches and palsies and whatever you want and
nausea, vomiting. All these poor people very likely have clots in their brain vessels that no one is ever
looking for. And there's a very simple lab test that tells you where the clot formation is taking place. And
this is the D-dimer [crosstalk 00:38:15]. And we're getting reins of narrative coming in saying, “Yeah, we found
D-dimers in this patient, this patient, they were so high, but no one could explain where they came from.”
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, one
gets tired of listening to all of this, because it was obvious. Now that is
one thing. The other thing that has now emerged is just as frightening. And that is that because the immune system recognizes this spike protein as old, the immune response
is very quick. So, after the first jab, one to two weeks after that jab, everyone starts making antibodies in large amounts.
Now, when the second jab is done and the spike proteins start to project from the walls of your vessels
into your bloodstream, it is not met only by the killer lymphocytes. Now the antibodies are also there and
the antibodies activate complement. That was my first field of research. So, that takes me back to
the first years. And this is, my God, over 40 years ago, it is clear that then, complement, which is the
second cascade system in the blood.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: The
first cascade system is the clotting system. Turn it off, the blood will clot.
If you turn on the complement system with the antibodies that bind to your vessel wall, then
this complement system will start riddling holes in the vessel wall. What a horrible thought. And if you
go and see these patients who have bleeding in the skin. I don't know if you've seen any of these patients
where I've seen lots of pictures, frank bleeding. And ask, where does that come from?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Say,
well, if you go around riddling your vessel with complement holes, you want
trouble, you get it. Now
this can happen anywhere, of course. And if the holes riddle in vessels of the
liver, for instance, or the
pancreas or the brain, then the blood will seep through the vessels into the
tissues. And what, may I ask the people who are being vaccinated right now, do you think it's also
going to be in the blood that seeps into your liver and brain? Well, the vaccines, because the vaccines
have half times that are days, they are in your bloodstream for at least a week. And they will seep into the
liver into any organ. And when those cells, when the liver cells then start to make the spikes
themselves, then the killer lymphocytes will also seek and destroy them. What we are witnessing is one of
the most fascinating experiments that could lead to massive autoimmune disease.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: When
this happens, God knows. And what this will lead to, God knows. It will take
some time, but okay. And so
that's that, but one last thing, and then I'm almost finished with this
vaccine horror. Look at the lymph nodes, the lymph nodes are full of lymphocytes and other immune cells.
When these damn vaccines get
to the lymph nodes, especially mRNA vaccines that are packaged in these
lipid nanoparticles, poison.
They're poison to the cells. So, some cells will immediately die upon contact.
Cells that don't die and
take up the vaccine and start to produce the spike are going to be recognized
by their brothers and
sisters in the lymph nodes as virus producers, and they will be attacked. So,
this is paternal war. War
between immune cells against immune cells. That is instigated by man because
man dares to introduce the viral gene to a place that it should not reach.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: All
right. Now, when lymphocytes die in the lymph node, of course, this is going
to cause inflammation. The
complement system is also going to attack and the lymph nodes swell, they are
painful and this can stay
for weeks on end. My colleagues here are telling me, “It's so strange, these
lymph nodes, they're just
swollen and what can happen then?” The lymphocytes in our lymph nodes, they
are our lifelong sentinels
and keep latent infection such as shingles under control. So, when they are
gone or when they malfunction, then these viruses that are sleeping in our body wake up and
ravage the body. That's why shingles after shots or shots and shingles are telling us a very important story that no one is looking into.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: And it
is so worrisome that I spent days reading up, what can happen if you're your
sentinel lymphocytes weaken
and slacken their grip on dormant pathologic events. These are viruses such as
shingles, herpes, zoster,
but also EBV, Epstein-Barr Virus, CMV, cytomegalovirus in certain countries,
toxoplasms, tuberculosis.
And of course, tumors. As we all know, tumors are forming every day in our
bodies, but those tumor
cells are recognized by our lymphocytes and then they're snuffed out. So, I am
awfully, I'm just worried
sick that the world is being goaded into taking something into the body that
is going to change the whole face of medicine.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
We'll get into what your projections are in a moment, but I want to dive back
a bit and go into the paradoxical immune enhancement. And from what you just said, it seems like
the primary explanation for
that is that there's a qualitative difference in the type of antibodies being
produced. By that I mean, the neutralizing antibodies that you referred to earlier, which are useful,
but without the killer T-cells or lymphocytes, it's not going to be very effective. But then you've got this
binding antibody, which you just referred to. And the binding antibody, which binds to the spikes coming out
of the endothelial cell walls after the COVID injections is what causes the problem. So, is it this that's
the core of this paradoxical immune enhancement, the differentiation between the binding and the neutralizing antibodies?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: No, I don't believe that at all. I think that-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: That's why I'm asking.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: There's
no molecular fundament for that because the enhancement of infection that you
see in cell culture cannot be equated with any true enhancement in the body. And when you read these papers, for instance,
saying that there's a discrepancy between findings in cell culture and in
animals, you always have to
immediately question, “Is the animal model valid at all?” And the answer is,
there have been no valid
experiments in animal models to show anything. In fact, there's no scientific
data at all to show whether
an antibody can enhance or prevent the course of infection in the correct
animal model, which is the monkey. And I have no more to say because everything else is pure
speculation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. But nevertheless, this paradoxical immune enhancement exists, and is projected by many. And I believe including you to be possible for a large portion of deaths that's going to occur.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I think that the enhancement is primarily due to lymphocytes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: That's interesting. That is interesting. So, it's the killer lymphocytes that are responsible for it.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes, they are overreactive. You see, because-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: I've
not heard of this before, and the secondary complement activation.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes, also. Exactly.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: But
that is on-site. You see when the lung produces the spike and you have too
many antibodies and complement, then of course, there's going to be mass destruction of lung
tissue. And if you have over- reactive killer lymphocytes, you will also have over-destruction of lung
tissue. You see the whole immune system and how it works is, I'm a Buddhist, but I will say, it's the
work of God. All right. And there's a conductor. It's like an orchestra playing. And the orchestra always
plays the right tune because there's a conductor saying, “Okay, this is a virus that is not very dangerous. So, don't
play too loudly. Don't get
the trumpets to sound when the violins are enough.” But what the vaccine
proponents are doing is
that they're getting the whole orchestra out of tune and out of tone, and
they're trying to replace the
conductor. And this is something that is bound to lead to doom.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
So, let's get into that. That's your projection is bound to lead to doom. So,
I suspect you thought about this at some length and-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Greatly.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: -have
come to some conclusions as to what your projections might be. Now, obviously
there's going to be a range
of outcomes. And I'm wondering if you could discuss with us what the
conclusion is that you have reached on this topic.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well,
the conclusion regarding the vaccines is very, very simple. The vaccination
program must be stopped.
Gene-based vaccines are an absolute danger to mankind and their use at present
violates the Nuremberg
codex, such that everyone who is propagating their use should be put before
tribunal, especially the
vaccination of children is something that is so criminal that I have no words
to express my horror.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: As we
all know, it is laid down by the Nuremberg codex, that in case experiments are
to be conducted in humans,
this can only be performed with informed consent and informed consent means
that the person to be vaccinated has to be informed about all the risks, the risk/benefit ratios, the potential dangerous,
and what is known about side effects. This cannot be done with children
because children are not in
the position to understand it. Therefore, they cannot give informed consent.
Therefore, they cannot be
vaccinated. If anyone does that, he should be set tomorrow before a tribunal.
If grownups have been
informed and want to get the shot, that's all right. But don't force anyone to
get the shot. It has to be by informed consent only.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah,
that's it, informed consent is virtually impossible currently because
anything, any attempt to inform people of the negative consequences of the injection of this substance
into your body is essentially censored. And in many cases it's banned. So, it's a very
effective strategy. So, they're only getting one side. They're not getting the other side and you can't have
informed consent without hearing both sides.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah.
Right. Correct. The parents should now step in and say, “We will not allow our
children to be vaccinated.”
And it is almost common knowledge among anyone who's been thinking about that.
That the risks in pregnancy
are bound and we believe that many stillbirths are a result of these
vaccinations. Furthermore,
these vaccines accumulate in the ovaries and testes, and we are horribly
worried that there's going
to be an impact on fertility. And this will be seen in years or decades from
now. And this is potentially one of the greatest crimes, simply one of the greatest crimes imaginable.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
It's certainly the greatest experiment in human history. It's just
unequivocal. There's no doubt about it. So, the first step is if you're watching this is, if you've gotten
the vaccine, you've gotten it. There's nothing you can do but you certainly don't want to get a booster. And
it looks every bit is what people were projecting. Many were projecting, actually, is they're going to
come up with booster recommendations. Maybe once, twice, even three times a year you're supposed
to get your booster. So, that's the last thing you want to do is get another booster injection on
this. The more you get, the worse it's going to be, and the more consequences that you're going to have as a
result. So, why don't you expand on that? And we can, then going to discuss another component.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more to say. You see the orchestra is
being told to play louder and louder and louder. The damage is going to get worse and worse and worse. In
the end, I predict that we're going to see mass illnesses and deaths among the healthy people who
normally would have wonderful lives ahead of them. Yeah. It's [crosstalk 00:54:15].
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Do you have an idea of the range that you're projecting is that we might have those?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: No.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Because
I mean, already, we've got, I mean, it's hard to tell because there's such a
limited databases. We're
recording this is close to 13,000, 500,000 adverse events. Some are projecting
that a minimum of five
times. That is what the actuality is, because they're just not reported this.
And they were six months into this or seven months.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah.
So, I'm not a mathematician, but you ask a computer to do some computing and
you'll come up with numbers that are so horrifying that you can't imagine that they can get through with this program.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: By then
it's going to be too late. So, have you come up with any recommendations for
those who've already gotten
it? I mean, the primary one is don't get another one. I mean, that's the
number one most important
strategy, but then there's, once people become enlightened and understand that
there's a risk to what
they've done or forced to do for whatever reason, what is their next step
aside from not getting the next one?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: The
next step is that they should realize that if they contact a real infection
now in autumn, they have to realize that there are good medicines to treat the infection. All right. And
they should insist that they get it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
So, yes, I actually interviewed Dr. Vladimir Zelenko. And he's responsible for
creating many effective
protocols. So, in his contention is, is that just like you stated the time, if
you're exposed to this infection at the very first sign of a symptom, you've got to jump on this.
You literally have like 48 hours before it could be too late. The longer you wait the worse it's going to be.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: That sounds very dramatic, but you should do something about it as soon as possible.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well,
it's his experience. I mean, he's got pretty significant experience in this in
the front lines. So, that's what he recommends because of the viral replication. Exactly what you were
saying earlier, the more viral load there is, the worse the problem.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes. Well, okay. I don't think we have to say he said so. Yes, it's fine with me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, I
know. And there's a wide variety of different treatments that are available
and certainly the conventional ones like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and
quercetin and zinc.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Sure, sure, sure.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All
right, well, I think that covers most of the questions I had and I really am
deeply appreciative of your lending your expertise and refining some of my understanding of the pathology
that was going on, especially with respect to paradoxical immune enhancement. Do you have any
other comments you'd like to make or reinforce some of the earlier ones you made?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I think I've said everything I have to say.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay,
good. All right. And then the final question is, you had alluded to the fact
that you've written at least
one book, maybe two. And I think the current one is written in German, but you
did have one of the most
important chapters converted to English and that's available as a free
download. So, how does someone obtain a copy of that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: You go to the publisher, Goldegg.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Can you spell that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah, it's G-O-L-D-E-G-G.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Goldegg, G-O-L-D-E-G-G. Okay. Dot com
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Put in a Bhakdi or put in “Corona Unmasked.”
Dr. Joseph Mercola: “Corona Unmasked,”
which is the title of your new book.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Of the book. Although it's in German, the title is English. All right.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: It's good.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Going there then to the left of the book, you will see a link to an English chapter.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay, perfect.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: That's it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And I just have one personal curiosity. You've been in Germany for what? Four decades.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah, more.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Why
don't you have a German accent and what type of accent do you have? I mean,
clearly it's a very pleasant British type of accent.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I went to an English school and an American school in Egypt.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Oh,
interesting. Okay. So, that explains it. And you didn't pick up any German
accent, that's interesting. So, and you speak German fluently, I would imagine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Well, thanks to you for all your work and efforts and people
will – I look forward to reading that chapter.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Please do.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah,
I will. All right, well, thanks again. Appreciate all your help.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: You're welcome and goodbye.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All right, bye.
